Bazaar Options Poll

All news and changes to the Eldemore website will be posted here.

New Bazaar Options (read the announcement before voting)

Option 1
44
19%
Option 2
76
34%
Option 3
60
27%
I like them all!
46
20%
 
Total votes : 226

Re: Bazaar Options Poll

Postby Startedraining » Wed Aug 06, 2014 4:58 am

After reading all these reasons as to why the stone doesn't seem particularly appealing, I feel as though it's my time to add a thought in, since my previous two posts were short and didn't explain much.

At first I was generally excited about the Stone being a possibility, however after some thinking and reading I feel like the other users are right. I don't think Bazaar pets should be released at all, it makes them more of a permanent thing I guess? I mean, these pets cost real money, I think other people would feel ripped off for other users being able to simply put in half of what the original buyers had to pay and get the same pet, as someone stated earlier, a very unhappy customer.
And though I agree that it would be more fair, there are people now collecting extras of every pet to use to trade later, I'm sure there will be a few glitches running around still in a couple months or even a year. The community of Eldemore is a loving and caring one, I'm sure nothing terrible will happen in the near future that will excuse these sorts of problems and pass them off as things that are fair.
back the point, the Stone seems to be like a gamble and many people may be unsatisfied with the money they're spending to get lets say, an uncommon from earlier this year? Even though it's a good concept, I think the only thing that should be giving out re-releases or older pets should be Thorn's Cottage or the Cave.

i really like option 2, it seems like, even though there's less time than the first option to get the pet, it's a lot easier to get that specific pet from trades at the beginning of the month, because a lot of people are buying them and stocking for their disappearance. It's okay with me, if this option were implemented.

I have to disagree on the "items" for pets, it seems a bit silly, honestly. Even though I have no grudge against anyone who would agree, I think it's a bit unnecessary, the coding would be extremely complicated as I can imagine, and it just seems like too much you know? Eldemore is filled with creatures that are beautiful and I don't think it's needed to add items.

The first option is also a no from me, because I feel like if they were there for so long and were so expensive, yes people would be able to save up and buy them, but then, a lot of people would be able to do that. And even in a few years they could become ultra rare or even sooner than that, it's not really sensible for me.

Well that's my thoughts and idk maybe I'm just a downer.


I really like the bazaar the way it is now, too. uwu

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Re: Bazaar Options Poll

Postby Danii » Wed Aug 06, 2014 6:51 am

I'm not a fan of the idea of a "Stone" too. In my opinion Store Pets are something special and should not be rereleased at all. I'm still working on getting all the store pets on C$, and it's hard but not impossible work. We spent our real money for that pets, so they should stay special. And I don't like the idea of spending real money for a "surprise" pet, especially if it can be only common or uncommen, because I have to work hard for my money.

Option 1 or 2 seems to be a good thing though. You clearly know what you get for your money and new species are always great.
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Re: Bazaar Options Poll

Postby ElijahWilkes » Wed Aug 06, 2014 9:37 am

Just to clarify for some people, I only mentioned items because I couldn't think of anything else. Anything small, that costs maybe somewhere between 5 and 20 baubles would work. As long as they're something that would continuously be useful and worth buying, then they could stay in the Bazaar for longer periods of time or even never leave the Bazaar.

In my opinion, there needs to be something else for the Bazaar that is not a pet and will be able to generate a constant flow of donations because of its usefulness. You can't do that with pets because eventually the certain pet will become so common that it's not worth buying anymore. At the same time, if the only thing that is ever released in the Bazaar is pets, and more pets at a time keep being added, then there will end up being so many that very few people will be able to or even feel encouraged to buy them all. I've been on some sites I loved that I just couldn't continue with because I couldn't keep up with how much real money it took for one person to keep up with the site.

I'm not sure how much sense that made but I tried. ^-^' I love this site and certainly want to see it keep going. So I definitely don't want it to end up that way. I hope that makes people understand better why I brought up items, but it wouldn't necessarily have to be items.
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Re: Bazaar Options Poll

Postby scmarshtacky » Wed Aug 06, 2014 12:32 pm

Let us also not forget guys, that this is a thread on how Eldemore can best make money. Instead of writing about why you dislike this option for this and that reason, focus on ideas that would make the Bazaar better, not just for yourself, but for the new members down the road. ^^

I think it's is easy for us older, and luckier, members to bash the Stone of Random while we sit atop our piles of ultra rare pets. Those of us that have the older pets we want may not risk the gamble, but what about the new members two years down the road? I understand why some of you don't want the bazaar pets re-released, but in the near future, the Elderwind, Phoenix Drake, Flame Elkrins, and early glassworks will be impossible to get. So are we going to continue to watch while more and more new members struggle in vain for older bazaar pets? I personally think it would be wonderful to offer them a chance to get themselves on a level playing field with the older members. And I also think that the stone would provide incentive for newer players to buy a few baubles, even if it doesn't appeal to the older crowd.

The last thing we all want to do is exclude the future members from this wonderful community right? ;)
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Re: Bazaar Options Poll

Postby Chouhesi » Wed Aug 06, 2014 12:56 pm

scmarshtacky wrote:Let us also not forget guys, that this is a thread on how Eldemore can best make money. Instead of writing about why you dislike this option for this and that reason, focus on ideas that would make the Bazaar better, not just for yourself, but for the new members down the road. ^^

I think it's is easy for us older, and luckier, members to bash the Stone of Random while we sit atop our piles of ultra rare pets. Those of us that have the older pets we want may not risk the gamble, but what about the new members two years down the road? I understand why some of you don't want the bazaar pets re-released, but in the near future, the Elderwind, Phoenix Drake, Flame Elkrins, and early glassworks will be impossible to get. So are we going to continue to watch while more and more new members struggle in vain for older bazaar pets? I personally think it would be wonderful to offer them a chance to get themselves on a level playing field with the older members. And I also think that the stone would provide incentive for newer players to buy a few baubles, even if it doesn't appeal to the older crowd.

The last thing we all want to do is exclude the future members from this wonderful community right? ;)



This is something we really have to keep in mind. Althought we don't know exactly how many of the oldest store pets are in existance we can be sure that the number is pretty low.
(For example 445 of the Alibino Rune Drakes were released in August. They were rare as the rareties came out in November/December last year. All the store pets already started out as Ultra Rare while even the albino needed until around April to turn Ultra Rare)
So even if there are like 200-300 of the old store pets we are already after a year at 4.1k users.
1/200 is already a pretty low rate but if you take some hoarders and dead accounts into the whole math everything gets even lower. It is already now hard to even find one of the old store pets up for trade and if we see them currently go for 600 baubles+ how will this be in 2 years if Eldemore keeps growing?

I have to admit that I'm also not found of the idea of the stones. But not because there is the chance that old store pets could be released but because I'm not much into gambling.
It would be hard to find a balance with the stones as we should keep in mind that baubles resemble real money and that a common outcome out of something you paid, lets say 50 Baubles for just seems wrong to me.


However I completely understand that Eldemore needs a new way to raise money to keep this wonderful place up and running, especially as no ads are shown here.
So instead of complaining about ideas the admins had to help Eldemore growing into the future we maybe should try to come up with ways to help the site raise more money.
If you have any questions about anything feel free to PM me~

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Re: Bazaar Options Poll

Postby kiel » Wed Aug 06, 2014 1:12 pm

    In my opinion the Stone of Random was a very good concept, but we must think about the general public. Firstly, not everyone can get fifty baubles unless they buy them, and not everyone can afford to buy any online currency. Secondly, as said earlier, I agree with the fact that there may possibly be a user who has just saved up enough to try for the stone. And they get only a pet from earlier this year. It would be a disappointment to them and the fact that they would easily have used those baubles to buy a store pet worth much more. On the contrary, a user does the same thing and gets a Void rune drake or a Silverleaf Glasswork. It would be a disappointment to those who worked hard to trade for them and cause an extreme unbalance in the bauble rarity scale. However, I do very agree that the second and third options seem reasonable. As for gaining older pets, that should be left to events, such as the Cave or Thorn's Cottage and similar to the happenings at the stump during events.

    In addition, since baubles are not very widely circulated around Eldemore at the moment, and the fact that the Bazaar pets cost quite a lot in comparison to how many baubles most users can afford to buy, the option that is best is to allow pets to be less baubles, but be available for shorter periods of time. I know that many users have missed multiple Bazaar pets due to the prices being rather expensive and not enough baubles being traded.
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Re: Bazaar Options Poll

Postby Jendalie » Wed Aug 06, 2014 1:17 pm

Thank you for everyone's feedback. I understand that the Option 3 may seen outrageous to some current and older members. However, the number of existing older Bazaar pets makes it near impossible for recently joined and new members to ever obtain one. This is a collection based site. There are going to be certain outcomes meant to be very hard to obtain. But it's one of my jobs to make sure that there is a reasonable amount in circulation or prepare a means to get a few more out in circulation at some point in the distant future.

There are around 200 of one of the older bazaar pet outcomes. There are over 4,000 members currently. In a year there may be more members but still only around 200 of that outcome. That isn't good. But we can't release it anywhere for free and we can't just sell it again outright because its value has gone up. It wouldn't be unfair to supporters who originally purchased it. I can't think of anything besides something like that stone that would still cost money but not hand it to you outright to keep it's rarity up.

The percentage of getting a special release or bazaar pet from the stone would be close to 40%-45% so that there was a good chance of getting something. We haven't decided on if it would be multiple stones with varying prices, making it active at certain periods of time or at the start/end of each month, or the exact percentage of things. Maybe the price is too high. We can certainly work out a more fair price range.



As for option 1, maybe 6 months is a long time to keep it out. We'll need to discuss the price vs. availability more.


I've had similar questions concerning Option 2. If there are 5 outcomes, you will have the option of purchasing all 5 separately. You will not have to worry about adopting them and getting random outcomes. This option is looking promising and would provide more variety in the store for less money.



Most importantly, we're not sure if these are things we want to do at all. We're still trying to figure out ideas but wanted to include members in the decision making and brainstorming.

And finally, I want to remind everyone that it's ok that some members don't like any of these. It's also ok that some members do like them. There's nothing wrong with stating your opinion on the matter, I can take the criticism. But it's not ok to try and change someones opinion for or against this poll. Just be respectful towards each other and try to see all points of view. There's no way to please everyone.

Again, thank you for the feedback and for keeping the discussion civil.
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Re: Bazaar Options Poll

Postby ElijahWilkes » Wed Aug 06, 2014 1:25 pm

Chouhesi wrote:
scmarshtacky wrote:Let us also not forget guys, that this is a thread on how Eldemore can best make money. Instead of writing about why you dislike this option for this and that reason, focus on ideas that would make the Bazaar better, not just for yourself, but for the new members down the road. ^^

I think it's is easy for us older, and luckier, members to bash the Stone of Random while we sit atop our piles of ultra rare pets. Those of us that have the older pets we want may not risk the gamble, but what about the new members two years down the road? I understand why some of you don't want the bazaar pets re-released, but in the near future, the Elderwind, Phoenix Drake, Flame Elkrins, and early glassworks will be impossible to get. So are we going to continue to watch while more and more new members struggle in vain for older bazaar pets? I personally think it would be wonderful to offer them a chance to get themselves on a level playing field with the older members. And I also think that the stone would provide incentive for newer players to buy a few baubles, even if it doesn't appeal to the older crowd.

The last thing we all want to do is exclude the future members from this wonderful community right? ;)



This is something we really have to keep in mind. Althought we don't know exactly how many of the oldest store pets are in existance we can be sure that the number is pretty low.
(For example 445 of the Alibino Rune Drakes were released in August. They were rare as the rareties came out in November/December last year. All the store pets already started out as Ultra Rare while even the albino needed until around April to turn Ultra Rare)
So even if there are like 200-300 of the old store pets we are already after a year at 4.1k users.
1/200 is already a pretty low rate but if you take some hoarders and dead accounts into the whole math everything gets even lower. It is already now hard to even find one of the old store pets up for trade and if we see them currently go for 600 baubles+ how will this be in 2 years if Eldemore keeps growing?

I have to admit that I'm also not found of the idea of the stones. But not because there is the chance that old store pets could be released but because I'm not much into gambling.
It would be hard to find a balance with the stones as we should keep in mind that baubles resemble real money and that a common outcome out of something you paid, lets say 50 Baubles for just seems wrong to me.


However I completely understand that Eldemore needs a new way to raise money to keep this wonderful place up and running, especially as no ads are shown here.
So instead of complaining about ideas the admins had to help Eldemore growing into the future we maybe should try to come up with ways to help the site raise more money.


I haven't seen complaining, I've seen discussing why people think the ideas will or will not work. It seems unfair to say that people can only discuss why the ideas will work and then blow off the discussions of why they wouldn't as "complaining". I've seen honest concerns about the issues the stones would cause if they were released, as well as concerns about the other ideas and arguments that say each idea will work, but I have not seen complaining. Discussions are two sided, you cannot discuss the pros of the ideas without discussing the con's, that would be taking an unbalanced view of things and leave room for mistakes to be made. In all honesty, just because one idea has more concerns expressed towards it than the others doesn't mean those concerns should be tossed aside.

I do feel the need to add that I was not around to buy the old Bazaar pets. I joined in January and had a tough time getting what I do have. But I put in the work required and now I only need one more pet, aside from the Beta of course. I can see your side that the pets are so rare that they may be near impossible to trade for eventually. But I also take the mindset that they're Bazaar pets and that's the way they should be. I put in the work required of me, so can others. Sure, I got gifted some but that certainly wasn't all of my collection. And I'm not just thinking about myself, I know I'm not the only one in the same situation.

As far as new ideas, that's exactly what I was trying to do. Even if items aren't a possibility, I'm sure there's some small thing that fits what I was describing that isn't a pet that would work. The sites flow of donations cannot be based on something like pets alone, especially as it gets even bigger. There needs to be something constant that won't lose value the longer its available. If that's not trying to come up with ideas or spur ideas, I don't know what is. I really hope I'm not sounding rude, as that is not my goal.

EDIT: Sorry, Jendalie, I did not see your post until after I posted mine. I just don't like that opinions get blown off as complaining or something similar just because they aren't a positive opinion or are concerns about the idea.
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Re: Bazaar Options Poll

Postby Scar » Wed Aug 06, 2014 1:26 pm

Chouhesi wrote:
scmarshtacky wrote:Let us also not forget guys, that this is a thread on how Eldemore can best make money. Instead of writing about why you dislike this option for this and that reason, focus on ideas that would make the Bazaar better, not just for yourself, but for the new members down the road. ^^

I think it's is easy for us older, and luckier, members to bash the Stone of Random while we sit atop our piles of ultra rare pets. Those of us that have the older pets we want may not risk the gamble, but what about the new members two years down the road? I understand why some of you don't want the bazaar pets re-released, but in the near future, the Elderwind, Phoenix Drake, Flame Elkrins, and early glassworks will be impossible to get. So are we going to continue to watch while more and more new members struggle in vain for older bazaar pets? I personally think it would be wonderful to offer them a chance to get themselves on a level playing field with the older members. And I also think that the stone would provide incentive for newer players to buy a few baubles, even if it doesn't appeal to the older crowd.

The last thing we all want to do is exclude the future members from this wonderful community right? ;)



This is something we really have to keep in mind. Althought we don't know exactly how many of the oldest store pets are in existance we can be sure that the number is pretty low.
(For example 445 of the Alibino Rune Drakes were released in August. They were rare as the rareties came out in November/December last year. All the store pets already started out as Ultra Rare while even the albino needed until around April to turn Ultra Rare)
So even if there are like 200-300 of the old store pets we are already after a year at 4.1k users.
1/200 is already a pretty low rate but if you take some hoarders and dead accounts into the whole math everything gets even lower. It is already now hard to even find one of the old store pets up for trade and if we see them currently go for 600 baubles+ how will this be in 2 years if Eldemore keeps growing?

I have to admit that I'm also not found of the idea of the stones. But not because there is the chance that old store pets could be released but because I'm not much into gambling.
It would be hard to find a balance with the stones as we should keep in mind that baubles resemble real money and that a common outcome out of something you paid, lets say 50 Baubles for just seems wrong to me.


However I completely understand that Eldemore needs a new way to raise money to keep this wonderful place up and running, especially as no ads are shown here.
So instead of complaining about ideas the admins had to help Eldemore growing into the future we maybe should try to come up with ways to help the site raise more money.


This is exactly what I wanted to get across but just couldn't find the words for!

By the time this place is booming, and if their really is only 200 or so in circulation(not including dead accounts or hoards), most that have said Bazaar pets only have one and that is to complete their collection; so down the line, if all said pets have a permanent place in a collection, they won't be ANY left to trade.

I understand the worry of rarity and the feeling of being cheated, but how about this-- if you don't want to worry about getting ripped off- perhaps have a stone that is just Bazaar, but it's off all the years, so as time passes, more and more Bazaar pets are added to it-- lessening the chances and keeping the rarity decent.
If you're still worried about rarity-- have a limited supple and a limited time, once out of stock, there's a waiting time perhaps a month or two- this prevents people from spamming it. And if it could be added, how about the idea of having an amount limitation to only buy 1. This way, people can't camp out and hog them all.
And now, if your worried about feeling cheated-- how about making it a tad more expensive? I've seen Bazaar pets as high as 100 Baubles, so how about making it 120 or 150.
People who have the resolve to get a complete collection would love this if it allows them to get a passes Bazaar, and it would be just the Elderwind, Pheonix, and Flame Elkins- it would be them all! So the chances of getting one would be very slim, especially in the future if all Bazaar pets are added to this one stone.
Though, I kind of want the Glitch to sit out... don't know why, I just feel he has more of a tie to the lore of Eldemore then the others do. ^^;
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Re: Bazaar Options Poll

Postby ElijahWilkes » Wed Aug 06, 2014 1:57 pm

That would definitely solve at least part of the issue with it for me, Scar. Since we already know Bastion's Heart is being made, I thinking adding another source for rereleased non Bazaar pets would be too much. Some pets would end up too common that way and I could see pets dropping in rarity with two options for rereleases. If it was just Bazaar pets, for a higher price than the higher end for pets, then I could see it maybe working out. The higher price would allow for it to account for the actual inflation of price on the Bazaar pets, with the very sight chance of someone getting something worth waaaay above that now. One thing with this that I would suggest is at least leaving the current Bazaar pets out and the immediately previous ones until the pets are like, 2 cycles of pets out of the Bazaar, of that makes sense.

Another idea that kind of popped to mind is, if it is done, maybe make it some kind of object that can actually be tradeable? That would make it a bit easier for people to get them so they don't have to trade for baubles then get it. And that way people have the choice of using it or maybe trading it for something so they know for sure what they get. I dunno if that makes sense.

I still don't like the whole idea of the gamble but if it were to be done, I think it would work best as a variation of what Scar said.
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